Designed for evolving network environments, the 5130 Router is compact, power-efficient, and supports 360 Gb/s switching. The 5130 is optimized for cloud, edge, mobile, and converged IP transport and AI-driven traffic aggregation. This hardened 1 RU platform features dual-redundant power and dense 1/10/25GbE access with 100GbE aggregation, enabling scalable deployment in space- and temperature-constrained locations. By delivering deterministic performance with quality of service (QoS), precise timing, and service isolation through hard and soft network slicing, the 5130 enables operators to run enterprise, xHaul, wholesale, cloud, and AI traffic on a single shared platform.
The 5130 is a temperature-hardened, dual-redundant-powered router delivering 360 Gb/s of switching capacity in a shallow-depth 1 RU form factor. As a compact access and aggregation platform, it provides 12 × 1/10/25 GbE SFP28 ports and 2 × 100 GbE QSFP28 ports, supporting both hard network slicing using FlexE and soft slicing using segment routing (SR). The platform supports Enhanced Common Public Radio Interface (eCPRI) transport for fronthaul aggregation and coherent pluggable optics on its 100GbE interfaces. The 5130 is thus well suited for AI workloads, cloud on-ramp aggregation, distributed edge deployments, 4G-to-5G migration, and high-performance Ethernet services, while maintaining performance and traffic isolation.
The 5130 includes a comprehensive feature set designed to support high-performance aggregation, operational simplicity, and service assurance across diverse network environments. Built-in operations, administration, and maintenance (OAM) and RFC 2544 / ITU-T Y.1564 service activation testing enable efficient validation of high-speed services without external test equipment. Advanced synchronization capabilities—including an integrated GNSS receiver and support for IEEE 1588v2 and ITU-T G.8275.1/G.8275.2 timing profiles—provide precise timing for latency- and time-sensitive workloads, while secure zero-touch provisioning (SZTP) accelerates deployment and reduces operational complexity at distributed edge locations.
Features and benefits
- Temperature hardened (-40°C to +65°C) with 9.9ʺ/252 mm depth for temperature-challenged or space-constrained locations
- 12 x 1/10/25GbE and 2 x 100 GbE fixed ports
- L1/L2/L3 low-latency switching
- Service isolation using FlexE
- Carrier Ethernet, IP routing, SR-MPLS, and SRv6
- Hardware-assisted packet OAM scaled to deliver up to 25GbE services with guaranteed SLA differentiation
- SZTP for rapid, secure, and error-free turn-up of services
- Advanced synchronization, including built-in GNSS receiver
- Built-in RFC 2544 and ITU-T Y.1564 SAT with 100 Gb/s traffic generation and analysis
- SDN-ready next-generation management including support for protocols such as NETCONF/YANG and gNMI/gRPC
- Ciena’s Navigator NCS multi-layer support for end-to-end network management control and planning
- Redundant AC or DC power
Product overview
A high-performance router, the 5130 is designed to support converged IP transport across access, aggregation, and edge domains. Its compact 1 RU design, extended operating temperature range (–40°C to +65°C), and shallow depth enable deployment in cabinets, vaults, and edge facilities where space and power efficiency are critical. Supporting low-latency L1/L2/L3 switching, Carrier Ethernet, IP routing, SR-MPLS, and SRv6, the 5130 provides the flexibility required to accommodate evolving traffic profiles driven by cloud services, AI workloads, and distributed edge architectures. Working with Ciena’s Navigator Network Control Suite™ (Navigator NCS), the 5130 delivers end-to-end visibility, automation, and control—making it a foundational platform for scalable, future-ready networks.
Applications
With the increased choice and flexibility provided by the 5130, you can extend the reach for 25/10/1GbE services anywhere—from the harshest environments to more broadband, mobile, and business customer locations.
- Cloud on-ramp and distributed edge connectivity enables scalable aggregation for cloud access and distributed edge deployments supporting latency-sensitive applications, including AI workloads and edge compute
- Remote PHY-device (RPD) backhaul links digital fiber network data (downstream, upstream, and video) between the converged cable access platform (CCAP) core, decreasing costs by lowering fiber and infrastructure needs
- Metro Ethernet deployed in a compact, environmentally hardened 1 RU platform at edge or access locations, enabling MEF-compliant Ethernet business services closer to customers
- Mobile transport delivers xHaul for cost-effective and efficient service for mobile network operators (MNOs) and mobile virtual network operators (MVNO)
- IP networking provides flexible EVPN, layer 2 (L2), and layer 3 (L3) services, and various underlay transport and stitching options, such as SR and FlexE
Powered by SAOS
The 5130 is powered by Ciena’s Service Aware Operating System (SAOS), a secure, carrier-grade network operating system used across Ciena’s routing and switching platforms. SAOS delivers a consistent operational experience across access, aggregation, metro, and transport networks. It supports scalable Ethernet and IP/MPLS services with service awareness, precise timing, QoS, SZTP, and programmability.
The 5130 also supports Ciena’s Node Essentials, which simplifies configuration through an intuitive GUI—replacing complex CLI scripts with a fast, form-based workflow that automatically handles all required bindings.
Software-defined networking and automation
Through a standards-based approach, the 5130 provides robust programmability. It features model-driven management with YANG-based data modeling and supports various management interfaces, including NETCONF, Google remote procedure call (gRPC) / gRPC Network Management Interface (gNMI) streaming telemetry, and command line interface (CLI).
For provisioning, it includes advanced transactionality capabilities to seamlessly handle complex, long configuration changes and script dependencies.
When paired with Ciena’s Navigator NCS, the 5130 delivers industry-leading multi-layer software-defined networking (SDN) capabilities for managing IP and optical layers across multiple domains and technologies.
Security
Offering robust hardware and software security features, the secure boot of the 5130 ensures it only starts with untampered SAOS software, while SZTP guarantees secure device power-on and deployment from day one.
Sustainability
The 5130 is expertly designed for use in street cabinets and colocation facilities. Plus, the 5130 is environmentally friendly, meeting Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directive standards. This not only makes the 5130 a responsible choice but also supports a longer network lifecycle, optimizing your resources for power, space, and design.
Technical specifications
| Specification | Description |
|---|---|
| Switching capacity | 360 Gb/s |
| Storage | 128GB |
| Ports | 12 x 1GbE/10GbE/25GbE SFP28/SFP+ ports 2 x 100GbE QSFP28 OIF FlexE Implementation Agreement v1.1 and v2.0 SFP+ ports support SGMII and copper SFPs Copper rates: 10G, 1G |
| Management ports | 1 x USB-C off-switch memory 1 x USB-C console 1 x RJ45 time-of-day (ToD + 1 pps in/out) 1 x SMB phase input (1 pps or 10MHz in/out) 1 x SMB GNSS antenna 1 x RJ45 management |
| CPU management ports | Console/USB/management/aux (RJ-45)/aux/flash support (1) USB-C (for console) (1) Ethernet management port (1) USB (for storage) |
| Timing and synchronization | Synchronous Ethernet and 1588v2 PTP support on all Ethernet ports (1) RJ-45 G.703 ToD in or out (1) Mini coax for 1 PPS in or out / 10 MHz in/out (1) GNSS/GPS receiver |
| Security | Broadcast containment egress port restriction Hardware-based DOS attack prevention L2, L3, L4 protocol filtering User access rights Local user authorization |
| Power supply options | Two redundant, hot-swappable power supplies (1 + 1 configuration) Dual AC Dual DC |
| Power requirements | DC input: -48 VDC (nominal) AC input: 100 VAC, 240 VAC (nominal) Power consumption: 5130-900/901: 135 W nominal, 175 W max. ETSI EN 300 132-2 ETSI EN 300 132-3 |
| Dimensions | 1 RU Height: 44 mm (1.73 in) Depth: 252 mm (9.92 in) Width: 444 mm (17.48 in) |
| Physical characteristics | AC variant: 9.7 lb.; 4.4 kg DC variant: 9.7 lb.; 4.4 kg |
| Operating temperature | -40°F to +149°F (-40°C to +65°C) |
| Storage temperature | -40°F to +158°F (-40°C to +70°C) |
| Humidity | Noncondensing, 5% to 90% |
Maximum port density
| Specification | Description |
|---|---|
| 1GbE | 12 SFP28 ports |
| 10GbE | 12 SFP28 ports |
| 25GbE | 12 SFP28 ports |
| 100GbE | 2 QSFP28 |
Regulatory and standards compliance
| Specification | Description |
|---|---|
| Agency marks | NRTL (NA) VCCI (Japan) CE (Europe) UKCA (UK) Anatel (Brazil) NOM (Mexico) |
| Emissions and immunity (EMC) | FCC Part 15 B, Class A Industry Canada ICES-003 Class A VCCI Class A CISPR 32 Class A GR-1089 Issue 7 EN 55032 CISPR 24 EN 55024 EN 300 386 |
| Environmental | RoHS2 Directive (2011/65/EU) WEEE 2002/96/EC |
| Environmental safety | ETSI EN 300-019-2-1 ETSI EN 300-019-2-2 ETSI EN 300-119-3 GR-3108 Class 2 / ETSI EN 300-019-3-3 Class 3.2 NEBS Level 3 CO (GR-63 Core) RoHS2 Directive (2011/65/EU) WEEE 2012/19/EU |
| Safety | EN 60950-1 and EN 62368-1 CAN/CSA C22.2 No. 60950-1-07 UL 60950-1 2nd ed. and UL62368-1 2nd ed. |
Software features
Manageability
-
Authentication, authorization, and accounting (AAA)
- TACACS+ support
- DNS support
- CLI/NETCONF restore of saved configs and certificates
- Local accounting
- Local user authorization (role-based access control)
- Local user management and authentication
- RADIUS support
- SSHv6 support
- Support for L3 in-band management
- AAA password aging and formatting
- Dynamic NACM
- Ability to limit local accounts NBI sessions per account type or organization
-
gNMI
- gRPC dial-out support
- gNMI capabilities gRPC support
- gNMI/gRPC telemetry support
-
L2 manageability
- Dynamic enable/disable FP stats
- L2 in-band management
- LLDP support
- Port-flap hold down support
-
L3 manageability
- NTP support
- Management VRF support
-
Management
- IPv4 management
- IPv6 management
-
Reset, migration, and upgrades
- Reset to factory default (RTFD)
- RTUC (backup/restore)
- Upgrade/install from a single package file
-
Mirroring
- Port mirroring
-
NETCONF
- NETCONF access control support
- NETCONF/YANG support
- Transactional config support (phased in)
- Candidate datastore capabilities
-
CLI
- Display active configurations using CLI in XML format
-
SNMP
- SNMP GET
- SNMPv3
- SNMP traps
-
Syslog
- Syslog support
- Syslog remote support
- Syslog TLS support
- External event notification and alarm generation
- System, platform, and equipment management through syslog
-
ZTP/licensing
- ZTP support
- ZTP v6 support
- SZTP support
- RFC 8572–compliant SZTP
-
PCEP
- PCEP, PCC delegated
-
BGP-LS
- BGP-LS SR-MPLS
- TE metric values in BGP-LS
Security
-
System security
- 802.1X
- RADIUS for AAA
- Software signature validation
- Dynamic NACM
- OCSP
- TLSv1.3 support
-
Network security
- BGP MD5 authentication
-
Management
- SCP
- SSHv2
- Enrollment over security transport (EST) (RFC 7030)
-
ACL
- IP ACL
-
Security certifications
- JITIC ASLAN L2
QoS
-
QoS
- Egress QoS (scheduling/queuing/shaping)
- Hierarchical Egress QoS (HEQoS)
- Ingress QoS (metering)
- WRED
- Large flow detection
- Large flow policing
- DSCP remarking
-
Hierarchical ingress metering
- CoS child meters, and VLAN parent meter
- VLAN child meters, and VLAN bundle parent meter
-
CoS mapping (aka RCOS)
- Classification on p-bit marking
- Classification on DSCP, MPLS-TC marking
Multicast
-
L2 multicast
- IGMPv3 snooping
-
L3 multicast
- IGMPv3
- IGMPv3 (PE-CE)
- PIM-SSM
- PIM-SSM (PE-CE)
- NG-MVPN
- NG-MVPN I-PMSI
- mLDP
- mLDP FRR
OAM
-
CFM
- CFM
- CFM (MEP)
- CFM (MIP)
- CFM linktrace
- CFM loopback
-
Link
- EFM OAM (802.3ah)
- EFM remote loopback
- Ethernet port loopback (ETTP)
-
Y.1731
- Y.1731
- Delay measurement
- Synthetic loss measurement
- MEF 35.1
-
BFD
- IPv4 single-hop BFD
- IPv6 single-hop BFD
- IPv4 multi-hop BFD
- MPLS-TP LSP BFD
- Seamless-BFD (IP Return Path)
- Micro BFD
-
Ping
- Ping
-
Traceroute
- Traceroute
-
TWAMP
- TWAMPv4 reflector
- TWAMPv6 reflector
- TWAMPv4 light
- TWAMPv6 light
-
2544 (service activation test [SAT])
- RFC 2544 service activation testing
-
Y.1564 (SAT)
- Y.1564 service activation testing
L2
-
General L2
- Basic MAC learning
- Ethernet bridging
- 802.1X
- QinQ
- CVID Bundling
- Virtual MAC
- 9800B Port MTU
- 4 x 25GbE breakout on 100GbE ports
- 4 x 10GbE breakout on 100GbE ports
- Port holdover / carrier delay
- Link flap dampening exponential back-off
-
FlexE
- FlexE
- L2-mapped FlexE with packet processing
- FlexE native protection
-
LAG / multi-chassis LAG
- LAG
- FAT PW
- LAG micro-BFD support
- ICCP MC-LAG (active/standby)*
- ICCP MC-LAG (active/active) triangle topology*
- Speculative Hash
-
Layer 2 Control Protocol (L2CP)
- L2CP handling (tunnel/forward, drop, peer)
- LLDP on OOB
- Per FP LLDP
-
L2 multicast
- IGMP snooping
-
Mirroring
- Port mirroring
-
Spanning tree protocols
- RSTP
-
MEF certification
- MEF CE2.0 compliance
- MEF 3.0 compliance
-
TDM services
- TDM SFP
L3
-
General L3
- Route-map support
- RT-constraint
- MD5 authentication
- IP unnumbered
- IPv6 BFD
- Latency propagation through IGP
- Multinet support on IP Interface
- Gratuitous ARP (GARP)
- Dynamic Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) inspection (DAI)
- DHCP snooping
- IP source guard (IPSG)
- uRPF and uRPFv6
- Configurable ARP/ND cache timeout
-
ECMP
- IP ECMP
-
BGP
- iBGP
- eBGP
- MP-BGP
- Inter-AS option A*
- Inter-AS option B*
- Inter-AS option C*
- BGP inline RR
- BGP PIC edge
- IPv6 BGP
- BGP large communities (RFC 8092)
- BGP dynamic update group
- BGP site of origin
- AIGP
- BGP policy for EVPN inbound and outbound RT filtering
- Configurable IPv6 link local address
- Add-path diverse support
- Remotely triggered black hole (RTBH) filtering
-
IS-IS
- IS-IS for IPv4
- IS-IS level 1 and level 2
- IS-IS for IPv6
- ISIS TI-LFA
- IS-IS single-topology and multi-topology (IPv4/IPv6)
- IS-IS multi-instance (default vrf)
- IS-IS latency propagation
- IS-IS unreachable prefix announcement (UPA)
-
OSPF
- OSPFv2
- OSPF TI-LFA
- OSPFv2 PE/CE, RFC4577
- OSPFv2 multi-area adjacency
- OSPF keychain authentication
-
Graceful restart
- OSPF graceful restart helper
- ISIS graceful restart helper
- BGP graceful restart helper
- LDP graceful restart helper
- Target LDP graceful restart helper (PW FEC)
- OSPF graceful restart
- ISIS graceful restart (without SR GR support)
- ISIS graceful restart (SR-MPLS GR support)
- ISIS graceful restart (SRv6 GR support)
- BGP graceful restart
- LDP graceful restart
- Target LDP graceful restart
Transport
-
General transport
- Latency flooding in IGP
- Latency flooding IGP-BGP-LS
- BGP-SR
- MPLS over LAG
-
SR-MPLS
- Anycast SID support for SR-MPLS
- Configurable SRGB
- IS-IS w/ SR extensions
- OSPF w/SR extensions with TI-LFA
- SR adjacency segment
- SR node segment
- SR MPLS TI-LFA
- uLoop avoidance TI-LFA (Bashandy)
- uLoop avoidance TI-LFA (ship to PLR)
- SR over FlexE
- Flex Algo (ISIS only) single level
- TI-LFA with Flex Algo
- Flex Algo OAM (Ping/Tracert)
- Segment Routing Stats (prefix SID, adj. SID, anycast SID)
- Configurable/persistent ADJ-SID
- Hitless reversion
-
SRv6 uSID
- Basic feature support
- Flex-Algo uSID
- SRv6 over FlexE
- TI-LFA
- TI-LFA uLoop avoidance
- SRv6 OAM (Ping)
- SRv6 OAM (Tracert)
- ISISv6
- SRv6 uSID stats
- L3VPN over SRv6 (IGP default)
- EVPN-VPWS over SRv6 (IGP default)
- EVPN-RT5 over SRv6 (IGP default)
- EVPN-VPLS / IRB over SRv6 (IGP default)[IPH1] [DJ2]
- EVPN-VPWS without IGP (single connect)
- L3VPN without IGP (single connect)
- Configurable/persistent link local
- Multi-instance support for SRv6
-
SRv6 uncompressed SID
- Basic feature support
- SRv6 over FlexE
- TI-LFA
- TI-LFA uLoop avoidance
- SRv6 OAM (Ping)
- SRv6 OAM (tracert)
- ISISv6
- SRv6 uncompressed stats
- L3VPN over SRv6 (IGP default)
- EVPN-VPLS / IRB over SRv6 (IGP default)
- EVPN-VPWS over SRv6 (IGP default)[IPH3] [DJ4]
- EVPN-RT5 over SRv6 (IGP default)
- Multi-instance support for SRv6
-
BGP LU
- BGP LU
-
LDP
- LDP
- LDP FRR/rLFA with IS-IS
- LDP FRR/rLFA with OSPF
- LDP-IGP sync
- uLoop avoidance LDP-FRR
- LDP stats (decap/encap/transit)
-
MPLS-TP
- MPLS-TP static
- MPLS-TP static (LSR)
- MPLS-TP transit statistics
- MPLS-TP stats (decap/encap/transit)
-
RSVP
- ISIS RSVP-TE support for L1
- ISIS RSVP-TE support for L2
- RSVP-TE over LAG interface
- RSVP-TE LSP ping and LSP traceroute
- GR helper mode
- GR restarting mode
- RSVP-TE statistics and counters
- CSPF ISIS L1
- Affinity include-any, include-all, exclude-any
- TE parameters LSP auto-sizing (auto bandwidth)
- Auto-sizing utilization-based LSP auto-bandwidth
- Auto-sizing up-size or down-size on basis of TCA
- Auto-sizing oversubscription
- Periodic re-optimization
- MBB (make-before-break) at the ingress LER
- Soft preemption and hard preemption with configurable setup and hold priorities
- Soft preemption non-Ciena interop
- RSVP-FRR link and node protect
- Auto-FB profile
- SRLG aware FB
- BGP-LU over RSVP-TE (FRR protected tunnel only)
- Services L2 PWs (tLDP) over RSVP-TE
- RSVP-TE CSPF command to run CSPF on specified set of TE constraints to a given destination without signaling the LSP
- RSVP-TE CSPF, ISIS L1 router w/ P2P L1 adj.
- RSVP-TE transit tunnel tats.
- Configure color on RSVP tunnels
-
SR: Policy (SR-MPLSv4)
- SR-policy for SR-MPLSv4
- Hardware-programmed backup path
- Seamless-BFD (IP return) Ph-1
- Seamless-BFD (label return path) Ph-2
- Automated next hop resolution (ANR)
- ANR with SR policy (primary CP only)
- SR policy stats
-
SR: policy (SRv6)
- SR policy for SRv6 (with 1CP)
- SRv6 policy stats
-
Service over SR policy (SR-MPLSv4)
- EVPN (VPWS) over SR policy
- L3VPN (v4/v6) over SR policy
- EVPN type 5 (v4/V6) over SR policy
- L2VPN over SR policy (VPWS and VPLS)
- EVPN-VPLS over SR policy
-
Service over SR policy (SRv6)
- EVPN VPWS SR policy
- L3VPN over SR policy
- EVPN type 5 (v4/v6) over SR policy
- EVPN VPLS/IRB over SR policy
-
Interworking
- SR to LDP mapping server
- SR to BGP-LU mapping server
- MPLS-TP to SR interworking (MS-PW)
-
SRLG
- SRLG per port-based assignment
- SRLG info propagation through IGP
-
Transport tunnel select
- SR policy with fallback option (SR-BE)
- Global selection knob between LDP and SR
-
SR-PM
- Through Y.1731
- Through TWAMPv4 lite
- For SR-MPLSv4 (SR policy)
- For SRv6 (SR policy)
- For SRv6 (Flex Algo)
-
G.8032
- Major rings
- Sub-rings and ring interconnections
- Interworking MC-LAG
- Fast convergence
Synchronization and timing
-
Synchronization
- SyncE
- G.8275.1 T-BC
- G.8275.1 T-TSC
- G.8275.1 T-GM
- Integrated GNSS receiver
- G.8275.2 T-BC
- G.8275.2 T-BC APTS
- G.8275.2 T-TSC
- G.8275.2 T-GM
- 1 pps output
- G.8275.1 T-BC slave to G.8275.2 master
- 10 MHz input
- GNSS-based location
Services
-
EVPN
- EVPN FXC (single-homing)
- EVPN FXC (multi-homing active-standby, local switching)
- EVPN VPWS (single-homed)
- EVPN VPWS multi-homing (all-active, local PE)
- EVPN VPWS multi-homing (all-active, remote PE)
- EVPN FXC multi-homing (all-active, local PE)
- EVPN FXC multi-homing (all-active, remote PE)
- single-active EVLAG (port-active MH)
- EVPN VPLS (single-homed)
- EVPN VPLS (all-active multi-homed)
- EVPN IRB
- EVPN RT5 routes (L3VPN support with EVPN)
- eVPN eTree RFC 8317 scenario 1
- EVPN eTree (all-active MH root)
-
L2 VPN
- Static VPWS
- VPWS
- VPLS
- VPLS BGP-AD
- FAT PW
- MS-PW
- L2VPN VPLS MAC with draw/MAC flush
- H-VPLS
- H-VPLS protection
- TDM over native MPLS PW
- PW over protected SR-TE and TI-LFA
- T-LDP graceful restart helper
- L2VPN eTree
-
L3 VPN
- L3VPN
- VRF-Lite
- L3VPN QoS
- 6VPE
- 6PE
- VPN4 default-info originate
- Default originate for VRF
- VPNv4 PIC edge
- 6VPE PIC edge
- VRF traceroute (no transit)
- NG MVPN
- IRB
- BGP route aggregation in a VRF
-
DHCP
- DHCPv4 L3 relay in VRF
- DHCPv6 L3 relay in VRF
- DHCPv4 (RFC 2132)
- DHCPv4 L3 relay agent
- DHCPv6 client for management interface
- DHCPv6 L3 relay agent
Ordering information
| Part number | Description |
|---|---|
| 170-5130-900 | 5130, (12)25/10/1GBE SFP28, (2)100 GBE QSFP28, EXT. TEMP, DUAL DC POWER |
| 170-5130-901 | 5130, (12)25/10/1GBE SFP28, (2)100 GBE QSFP28, EXT. TEMP, DUAL AC POWER |
| Required OS base system perpetual software license | |
| S75-LIC-5130EO-P | SAOS BASE OS, ETHERNET & OAM, FLEXE, SOFTWARE LICENSE FOR 5130, PERPETUAL |
| Optional OS applications | |
| S75-LIC-5130MPLS-P | SAOS ROUTING AND MPLS SOFTWARE LICENSE FOR 5130, PERPETUAL |
| S75-LIC-5130SYNC-P | SAOS SYNCHRONIZATION SOFTWARE LICENSE FOR 5130, PERPETUAL |
| S75-LIC-5130SEC-P | SAOS SECURITY SOFTWARE LICENSE FOR 5130, PERPETUAL |
| S75-LIC-5130100G-P | SAOS 100G SOFTWARE LICENSE FOR 5130, PERPETUAL |
| S75-LIC-5130EVPN-P | SAOS EVPN SOFTWARE LICENSE FOR 5130, PERPETUAL |
Ciena may make changes at any time to the products or specifications contained herein without notice. Ciena and the Ciena Logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of Ciena Corporation in the U.S. and other countries. A complete list of Ciena’s trademarks is available at www.ciena.com. Third-party trademarks are the property of their respective owners and do not imply a partnership between Ciena and any other company.